"Signs"/Signage in Court

Introduction:

An Tir is the first Kingdom of the Society to begin using signage as a visual aid during court. This project began between Viscount Sir Finn Baneson, OP, Baron of the court of An Tir, and Her Excellency Dame Talia bint al-Athir, OP. Both have graciously agreed to participate in an interview about their project and have been kind enough to communicate with a SCAdian of Lochac about starting their own signage system. 

The Honourable Lady Gwen verch David of Lachoc was also interviewed about her experience with beginning her signage project. This interview can be found below the An Tir interview.

These Pelicans of An Tir have graciously provided their documents for other Kingdoms to utilize and make their own signs should they be so inclined. The links for these documents will be included at the end of the interview(s) below Lochac.

For full transparency to readers, the interviewer Nicasia Leontodes of the East Kingdom knows Her Excellency Dame Talia bint al-Athir from their shared time in Caid before the beginning of the Coronavirus Plague of 2019.

A few notes on Nicasia’s edits to the interviewee responses before publishing on SignHeraldsOfTheSCA.com: 

• Anything in [square brackets] indicates editing to remove a few words. 

• Words (and similarly worded portions of sentences) removed:

  • Translate - Translate is an inaccurate descriptor for the transition between sign language and spoken language. Sign languages are distinct, independent languages with their own grammar, structure, and reliance on facial expressions and body language. They are not directly translatable to the linear structure of spoken languages because they are simply not visual representations of spoken words. Therefore, word-for-word translation is impossible.

  • Interpret - Interpret was removed as an effort to separate any Signers in the SCA (particularly Sign Heralds) from licensed/certified interpreters in the modern world. Signers in the SCA, particularly referencing those who provide signing services, do not require these certifications to volunteer this service in the Society.

An Tir Interview:

Interviewing Viscount Sir Finn Baneson, OP, Baron of the court of An Tir, and Her Excellency Dame Talia bint al-Athir, OP. 

1. Before we start talking about the signage in court, tell me how you two know each other! Did you two meet while starting this project?

Finn: I met Talia while working as co Heads of Retinue for Octamasadies and Achaxe. We both were asked to support this reign as a “two in the box style” team, each role having two people to spread the burden. 

Talia: We met during the reign of Octamasadies and Achaxe in An Tir when we were assigned as co Head of Retinue. This project was brought on shortly after our meeting in an effort to increase accessibility during their reign.

2. When did this project begin? When did An Tir officially start using the cards? 

Finn: When working on some support ideas for the reign I had brought up my background in the Deaf community and wanted to do something that would make paying attention to court easier from the front row to the back. This idea was started about 2 months into the reign. September 2022 was when we started using them roughly.

Talia: In planning out the reign and how we would like to run things, we brainstormed on ways to make some things more accessible for both our staff and the populace. This particular idea was really the brainchild of Finn’s. We implemented the use of the signs fairly quickly, I believe it debuted at court during September Crown 2022.

3. Was there a specific moment in your SCA experience that spoke out to both/either of you that initiated the use of this mode of providing access to information for your SCAdian peers attending court?

Finn: For me I have always had a mindset towards inclusion. With my background in the deaf community I have tried to find ways to make it more accessible. I had some discussions with the kingdom disability officer and unrelated to the signs conversations around seating for mobility and hard of hearing folks. 

Talia: I supported the sign project because I know firsthand how difficult it can be to follow what’s being said in court when you’re hearing impaired- especially in situations where you can’t read lips. I rely heavily on visual cues to understand conversations, and during the pandemic, when everyone was wearing masks, it became especially isolating. Not being able to see people’s mouths made communication incredibly difficult for me. We did have Sign Heralds on hand during that time but I myself do not know ASL.

4. How did you go about getting Kingdom approval for using these cards? Did you need to go through your DEI office or the College of Heralds?

Finn: I brought up the idea at one of our planning meetings and we just went with it. Helvi, who was the court coordinator, offered to make the signs with her skills in Adobe. She printed them and did the design work. Achaxe and Octa said, “let’s do it.” I suppose in a kingdom where the Crown’s word is “law,” it just happened. 

Talia: Our royals really left a lot of decision making up to us. We were all on the same page and Their Majesties were very big supporters of DEIB. They were instantly on board with the idea and we ran with the idea. It was taken to our court coordinator, who was gracious enough to format the cards and had them printed. The cards then became part of her toolbox as she ran courts and had control of the dockets.

5. Are there any particular rules or guidelines regarding signage presentation during court?

Finn: As far as I know there aren’t any. The only thing we try and do is not show the sign before the court herald has the time to say the award. No clueing in the audience before it’s time. The kids also often show the signs on the live stream camera. 

Talia: There are no rules that I know of. At least we don’t have any set rules in our kingdom regarding them. We try to be uniform with how they are presented, i.e. timing, presenting to the live stream cameras so viewers can also see what is being presented, and we tried  to make sure that we included the registered badge for each award where applicable for an added visual clue. We also assign an adult to help organize the cards and follow along with the docket so the children only need to be given the cue when to cross the stage.

6. Was there any feedback from the Populace regarding a “curb cut effect,” “inclusive design ripple effect,” or “universal design benefit?” - For readers, all these phrases and more signify the idea that a feature designed for a specific group ends up benefitting a wider population.

Finn: The feedback we got was all positive. Many folks said, “Wow, why haven’t we done this before?” And other groups wanted to start doing their own. Both principality groups Tir Righ and Summits, made their own cards based off the ones Helvi designed. We got a lot of thank you’s during the reign.

Talia: The feedback was incredibly positive. It was so well received that other branches began to implement it for their courts as well. 

7. You’ve been kind enough to share a few photos. I’ve noticed there are a lot of kids holding up the Sign Cards. What do they think about participating in court like this?

Finn: The kids and teens love it. They get to be in front of court. They have a responsibility that shows timing and involvement. They are directly helping everyone. Some take it really seriously and others just like to have fun acting like “Vanna White.”

Talia: The first few courts it was a little difficult to get kids out of their shell and feel comfortable being in front of an audience. My daughter, Baroness Nahdiya bint al-Sahab, was our sign bearer until we got more to participate. Eventually many children/teens were looking forward to helping with the signs and often sought out our court coordinator to volunteer for the job. It was great to see that so many children felt important and had a place where they felt included.

8. Do you think something similar could be done outside of court settings? Like volunteers using signage alongside/near Marshals at wars or tournaments? I fight in Heavies, and Her Excellency - being the Consort to my first Knight at the beginning of my SCA experience in Caid - may remember that I use noise-impact hearing protection while fighting. After having some spoken/hearing communication difficulties within my social circle of Heavies fighters in the SCA (and running hearing tests on some of them in my modern-day occupation), I’ve recognized that a lot of the Heavies fighting community has noise-induced hearing loss. Large fighting fields can make it difficult to hear loud calls regardless of one’s hearing capabilities or use of hearing protection. I know I talked a bit about Heavies here, but the question still applies to a lot of other areas in the SCA like large meetings or classes at inter-Kingdom events.

Finn: I definitely think that is a path that this could take! “Hold” signs, or flags that indicate “lay on,” victor vs defeated, signs for salute to the crown, your inspiration or opponent. It comes down to materials and fumbling through what volunteers are willing to use. If it’s easy and accessible to do it makes adoption so much easier. It takes folks willing to just try it out and communicate it to the community. 

Talia: I absolutely think more signs or other visual cues should be implemented in various areas of the society, particularly where it can aid in situations where safety may be a concern. The tournament/battle field would be a great place to start. I think the best thing to do is make it simple. It’s easier to implement something that is easy to do or seems like a natural action, that doesn’t require formal training.

9. If there was one thing others should take away from this project, what do you think it would be?

Finn: First I would say be willing to think outside the box or norm, and be willing to run with these ideas especially when it’s about inclusion. 

Talia: I think it’s important to evaluate your experiences and recognize whatever challenges you may have, and know it’s likely there are others who face the same issues if not a greater challenge. You might understand firsthand the struggle others have and may have an idea to help. If there is an accommodation that you think you would genuinely benefit from, perhaps others could as well. Speak up, ask for help, make suggestions if you have them. We are a community and it takes many hands to make it better. It’s not just about accessibility- it’s about dignity and connection.

Thank you both for taking the time to talk about your project! 

Finn: Thank you for the opportunity to talk about this. I never thought this idea would take the direction and the breadth that it did. Small changes can have huge impacts, which is part of my personal motto, “From the smallest of acorns grows the mightiest of oaks.” Ideas like this may be small at first but then they grow into something much bigger and broad in their reach. 

Talia: Thank you for inviting us to share this. Supporting this project felt like a way to help others who might be struggling silently. It wasn’t about making things easier per se- it’s about making people feel seen, heard, and included. And this was just one small way to make that happen for others.

Lochac Interview:

The Honourable Lady Gwen verch David from Lochac has expressed interest in creating signage for court in her Kingdom.

1. So tell me, what moment in your SCA experience got YOU interested in working on a Sign Card system?

Gwen: In late 2019 and early 2020, I ran a survey on how the SCA could make events more welcoming and accessible to all, and one of the things that came out of that is that we have a large number of people with sensory processing difficulties as well as those members of our community who are d/Deaf. In that same survey, someone mentioned the use of court signage in one of their comments - so really, I have An Tir to thank!

What struck me about court signage is that it is a ‘curb cut’ solution. Court signage can benefit d/Deaf people, people with sensory processing issues, non-fluent English speakers, and newcomers and visitors who may have trouble identifying the key information in a ceremony. It was also something that could be easily implemented by local groups without an expert volunteer, and that seemed like it would make it much more likely to spread, and spread quickly.

2. Who have you been working with to get this project started? Who do you think are the key people that need to get involved with this project to ensure it succeeds?

Gwen: I have been working closely with a member of my household, the Honourable Lady Amanda Martel, who is a highly experienced herald. She has served as Crux Australis (Lochac’s kingdom herald), and - critically - is much more adept than I am with graphic design software. I knew early on that it would be essential to make sure that the images and text on these signs were as clear as possible, so Amanda’s help has been invaluable.

I have also discussed the project with Mistress Isabella de Bordeaux, the current Crux Australis, who was enthusiastic about the project. Through Mistress Isabella, once we have a working set of signs, we can spread their use among Lochac’s heralds who are well placed throughout the Kingdom to introduce it to local groups. Lochac does not currently have a DEI Office (this is in development), but even once it does, I suspect that the College of Heralds will be better placed to support the project. The College of Heralds has a place for a Kingdom Deputy for Sign Heraldry, although (to my knowledge) that role is currently vacant. I expect that this project will sit naturally under their management, as a support and supplement to [Signers] at court.  

It will be critical to gain the approval of the Crowns, Barons, and Baronesses who preside over courts where these signs are used. Once my first set of signs are ready, I intend to ask to test them in a Baronial court, to work out the kinks, before offering them to the Crown. A supportive Baron and Baroness, and a supportive Crown, are essential for court-related projects to succeed.

3. The East Kingdom has both spoken French (Canada) and English (USA) and also has signed languages of American Sign Language (ASL in USA and English-speaking Canada) and Langue des Signes Québécoise (LSQ/Quebec Sign Language in French-speaking Canada). I am aware that Lochac is in a bit of a unique situation where the majority of the Kingdom’s spoken language is English but that there are a couple of commonly used signed languages within all of Lochac’s baronies and lands of the Kingdom. Would you kindly comment on how Sign Cards like these can help the d/Deaf Populace of your Kingdom?

Gwen: Lochac is geographically very large: a plane trip from our westernmost group to our easternmost group takes at least six hours. As a result, it’s quite likely that d/Deaf people living in the far west may very rarely meet d/Deaf people from the far east. Although I am not myself a member of the d/Deaf community, this struck me as something that would seriously hinder attempts to build a signing SCA community in Lochac. We just don’t have the population density - and what’s more, the two countries that make up Lochac have different sign languages [Australian Sign Language (Auslan) and New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL)]. These things are a big challenge for establishing a shared SCA-specific vocabulary, and an even bigger challenge for preventing burnout in people who volunteer to [sign the spoken message] in courts. Chances are, you would start off with very few people per group who had the necessary skills, and because it’s so far from group to group, those same people would get asked every time, until a bigger community of [Signers] can be built up.

My hope is that court signage will make our courts more accessible to d/Deaf people and others by helping them track what is going on in court at a basic level. Court is an important part of SCA culture. It is how we celebrate people in our community and how we show what we consider worthy of celebration. Court signage can’t do the work of [carrying a message between sign language and spoken language], but it can at least make sure that a d/Deaf person knows what people are being called up for then it shows that we care about everyone being able to understand what is being celebrated. I hope this will help d/Deaf members of our community feel like they are just as much a part of these celebrations of people’s achievements as the rest of the populace does. We can demonstrate to them that it’s worth sticking around as we work on more complex solutions, like [Signers], and also remind non-d/Deaf members of our community that people who can’t hear Court still deserve to participate.  

Court signage is not the “wheelchair-accessible bathroom” of support for d/Deaf community members, but it might manage to be a portable ramp. It’s an affordable starting place to reduce the impact of one of the major barriers d/Deaf community members face and get people thinking about what more we can do.

4. For the other Kingdoms/countries that commonly use other languages, either signed or spoken (East, West, Drachenwald), what do you think these Kingdoms could learn from Lochac, should these Sign Cards start being implemented in your Kingdom?

Gwen: I am still in the very early stages of development of court signage, and haven’t tested the signs at an event. However, one very important thing that I think matters when you have multiple languages involved is to lean on visual symbols. The purpose of heraldry in medieval Europe was to communicate at a distance and without words. We have an incredible advantage in the SCA that there is already an established familiarity with heraldry and many of our awards have associated heraldic badges. These are designed to be easily recognisable, so use them! Where an award doesn’t have an established badge (like a Court Barony), use heraldic design principles to come up with a simple visual design to go along with the name of the award. 

As I work on introducing court signage in Lochac, we will also have an opportunity to see how ideas like this can be spread across a kingdom without the people themselves necessarily travelling. Because Lochac is so large, it’s important to me that the court signage packet I’ve been working on is something that can be used successfully by someone who has never seen them before. As a herald myself, I’ll be using the online communication networks of the Lochac College of Heralds to share the designs, and I look forward to seeing if this can enable our more remote groups to take it up independent of any travelling teachers.

Thank you so much for sharing the beginning of your project in Lochac with us. Please stay in touch and let us know how things go as your project progresses!

Gwen: Thank you for taking the time to highlight this project! I look forward to seeing how projects like this go forward across the Known World, and it’s exciting to be a part of it.

Links for Card Downloads as Examples from An Tir:

• An Tir Heraldry Signs PDF Link

• An Tir Heraldry signs.ai Link

This is the end of the 04/02/2025 Interviews